In this exclusive interview, director Molly O’Brien and editor Monique Zavistovski discuss The Only Girl in the Orchestra, their documentary about Orin O’Brien, the groundbreaking first full-time female musician in the New York Philharmonic, exploring their decade-long journey to create the film, their creative choices in capturing the double bass on camera, and O’Brien’s lasting impact on classical music.
The Only Girl in the Orchestra is now streaming on Netflix, offering viewers an intimate portrait of this pioneering musician who continues to teach and inspire others well after her retirement from the Philharmonic.
The documentary was selected for the 97TH OSCARS® SHORTLISTS in the Short Documentary category.
This interview has been edited for clarity.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
The Conversation
Jason: Could you give us a quick introduction and brief bio – whatever you’d like to share?
Molly: Sure. My name is Molly O’Brien. I’m the director-producer of The Only Girl in the Orchestra, a film about the double bassist Orin O’Brien. And I have the great pleasure and honor of being her niece.
Monique: I’m Monique Zavistovski. I edited the film The Only Girl in the Orchestra, and I come from a classical music background. My parents were musicians in the Met Opera Orchestra for 35 years. So, I was thrilled when Molly reached out to me to edit the project, and we had an amazing time working together.
Musical Choices and Soundtrack
Jason: I absolutely love this film — everyone needs to see it. The musical choices throughout were wonderful. There’s so much to discuss, but could you tell us how you selected the music for the film? The soundtrack consisted almost entirely of double basses, with just a few snippets of Prokofiev’s Lieutenant Kijé—everything else I heard was double bass music.
Molly: Yeah, you are right. Monique, I think you can answer this question about choosing the music because you chose most of the music that’s in the film and were really a partner in that. The only thing I would say is that it’s important here to shout out our composer, Laura Karpman, who worked with Orin in the recording studio with a double bass quartet made up of Orin’s students.
I want to apologize to any of the double bassists who were on the recording. I wasn’t in the recording studio. I remember Jacqui Danilow, Don Palma,Sam Zagnit,and one other bassist, but I wasn’t there. I had COVID,so please accept my apologies. You’re very much appreciated. I think Monique can speak to the orchestral pieces that were chosen for the film, including the Mahler Second (Symphony).
Monique: This was all Molly’s vision. Really. I chose certain pieces, but Molly’s direction from the beginning was, “I want the audience to be blasted out of their seats.” And so the Mahler Second was an extension of that vision. And I think it was also something that was—it was a piece of music that kept appearing repeatedly in the footage and seemed to exemplify what Molly was trying to do.
When I first heard from Molly, she told me that what she wanted to do was make a film, not about a virtuoso soloist. We’ve seen a million of these films, but it was a film about the unsung hero of the orchestra—the double bassists, the orchestra players—and Orin being iconic among them. And so, to honor that unsung hero, I think making the bass forward using pieces like Mahler’s Second was the way to go.
And so I took that direction and ran with it. Molly let me play and choose pieces that felt emotionally suitable to whatever scene we were using but were also bass-forward. It was always about being bass-forward, which was a direction that Laura Karpman took and ran with. We recorded many of the pieces that were contemporary music using only basses.
Origins and Development
Jason: Bravo on such a wonderful job! Was it really a 10-year project to get her to finally say yes?
Molly: Yes. I had wanted to make a film about my aunt Orin O’Brien and her joining the New York Philharmonic as the first full-time female musician with the Philharmonic in 1966 when Leonard Bernstein broke the glass ceiling and hired her.
I wanted to tell that story for at least 10 years, and I asked every year and got a no. Then, the 10th time I asked, I got a yes. And I think I got a yes at that point because Orin was thinking about retiring already, and having cameras invade her professional world didn’t feel as daunting.
Jason: If I remember correctly, you had the idea of documenting her last year in the orchestra, though I’m not sure if Orin had signed off on it. Then COVID hit, which derailed those plans. As a result, Orin never knew that she was playing her last concert when she performed for the final time.
Molly: It’s true. When Orin played her final concert with the New York Philharmonic in early March 2020, she was unaware it would be her last—everyone was sent home after that. She never returned, and with the hall renovation happening during that period, there was a delay before the Philharmonic started performing again.
Jason: She’s not slowing down. I love that scene where she shows her date book to a former student, displaying all the concerts and teaching that she’s doing. It’s too bad she missed out on that moment—that special moment of knowing it was her last concert with the orchestra.
It’s great to see Orin continuing with the Manhattan School (of Music) teaching, and it’s just so cool to see that even though that chapter with the Philharmonic has ended, she still has a vibrant professional career continuing to unfold.
Molly: I think she would say that she had more fun than anyone else playing with the New York Philharmonic and has zero regrets, and she was invited back to play as part of the team that was testing the sonic excellence—or lack thereof.
I think she was very impressed with it in the end. And then you see her visiting, going back for a concert at the new hall, with everyone flocking around her and reaching down to greet her in the film—they’re just so thrilled that she’s back. So, I think it’s a continuum. I don’t feel like she feels she’s missed anything. She feels very lucky.
A Legacy of Musical Community
Monique: It was clear to me in watching the footage of the kind of community that Orin had built. And when Molly says that people want to celebrate you, Orin, it’s absolutely true. So, she has constituents, in a way. She has this posse of people who love and have been influenced by her and want to celebrate her. And so I think that continues. That seems to be a big part of her legacy.
Jason: You see this obvious love and affection in these people—so many of them singing the Orin O’Brien song outside. Then, there were those wonderful encounters with David Grossman, her former student who became her colleague at the New York Philharmonic.
Filming the Double Bass
Jason: This is a technical question, but I’m curious about capturing the double bass in widescreen format. When I hired a company to redesign our website, they asked why we had to feature an instrument that awkwardly covers up the human subject. While it works perfectly for TikTok, it’s more challenging for traditional film. Could you talk about your choices to bring the bass to life on screen without shooting from too far back or too close up?
Molly:We had an incredible cinematographer,Martina Radwan,who is very instinctual and immersed in her work. We talked a lot about the verticality of the double bass and how that contradicts the horizontal aspect ratio of any screen on which we’re going to watch the movie. Low angles—so staying low and shooting up—is a great way to get the whole bass in. Wide shots are also really important, but staying fluid and off the tripod so that you’re moving.
When I first conceived of the film, I thought, “Oh, classical music’s very formal. We should use tripods and be very steady and still.” And that was just when I met Martina and Lisa Remington, our incredible producer—that was thrown out the window. Another producer, Sue Kim, also advised me about this. Bringing in trusted collaborators to help figure out the visual language of the film was important. So we kept very fluid. And then, of course, having Monique choose what pieces of the footage to use is important.
Monique:Martina shot the double bass in a way that made it more human and organic. And so there were a lot of details there that brought the double bass to life. This is precisely how Orin talks about the double bass, the instrument being alive and temperamental and having its own emotions.
And so I was lucky to be handed this embarrassment of riches, this treasure trove of beautiful footage of the double bass that made it feel human and like it was moving all the time and breathing. And so I was very lucky. I didn’t have to do much work on my end.
Joining the Philharmonic
Jason: You take such a sophisticated and layered approach to the title “The Only Girl in the Orchestra.” When I interviewed Orin several years ago, I asked my social media followers and email newsletter subscribers what they wanted me to discuss with her. By a large margin, the most common response was: “What was it like being the first woman in an orchestra?”
It’s a more complicated question than it seems because women had already performed with the New York Philharmonic before her. Additionally, there’s a natural reluctance among section players, regardless of being first or not, to be in the spotlight.
The way you capture those cringe-worthy stories from the sixties—like comparing her to being “as curvy as the double bass”—and her laughing at that hilariously (or horrifically) dated journalism is just beautiful. I love how that works. And I remember Orin telling me that she found other aspects more notable—like being the first German bow player in the Philharmonic section or being the first Fred Zimmermann student in the New York Philharmonic.
Molly: Orin says over and over again, “There was a harpist. She was there before me. I was only alone as the only woman in the orchestra for one year.” She qualifies it a lot, I think—rightly so, because she doesn’t want to take credit where credit isn’t due. But what she doesn’t sometimes acknowledge is how important it is to all of us as women out in the professional world to know the stories of the first woman who actually was hired full-time by the New York Philharmonic.
That is true, and she did do that. It’s also true that she did not enjoy the publicity surrounding it. She’s sticking with that story. She really did not like it. She chose the double bass for a reason—it’s a background instrument. She didn’t want to be a soloist. She says that very clearly in the film. She didn’t want to be a soloist.
A New York City Story
Jason: Her parents were soloists, right? I love how that comes up in the documentary—that her parents were essentially movie stars in the spotlight. That whole story adds so much context to her reluctance to be in the spotlight herself. Plus, it gives the film this wonderful New York vibe, like “Only Murders in the Building,” that makes you want to be there.
From her old apartment that she had to move out of because it was deteriorating to scenes of you, Molly, moving around the city while carrying her bass as she instructs you on proper technique.
Monique: There’s so much more that I wanted to show. And when you referenced the New York flavor, some really great scenes ended up on the cutting room floor that were shot on Molly’s iPhone that just added so much of that New York flavor and texture. I’m thinking about Orin’s cologne that she would wear, that she would show you how she would go to work wearing this.
I think she wasn’t allowed to wear perfume in the orchestra, but she found a perfume made out of rosin. It’s a double bass perfume—it’s wonderful. It smells like the instrument. So she sneaked that in, and she took Molly on tours of her apartment and showed her her collection of double basses.
She had six basses in her old apartment, and I think maybe five migrated to the new apartment. These were instruments from the 1700s. And she took us on wonderful tours of the paintings and art in her apartment and showed us drawings that Fred Zimmermann had gifted her.
And so much of that New York flavor didn’t make it into the final edit. But I feel like Orin’s life is synonymous with New York, and her career is synonymous with New York. I remember that from my upbringing—my mom was the fourth female musician hired by the Met Opera Orchestra. That world and what it was like for women who, like you mentioned when returning to your earlier question, had talked about Orin resisting that narrative.
Of being the first woman musician in the New York Philharmonic. And I think as an orchestra player, you do resist that narrative as a woman. You’re a member of the orchestra—that’s the more important thing. And my mom talked about that a lot. She had doors slammed in her face all the time, but being part of that world in New York, a member of the orchestra… it was the height for her. And I suspect for Orin as well.
Introducing the Double Bass to a Wider Audience
Jason: This documentary is a great introduction to the double bass as well. I’m so delighted that something like this about that instrument in the corner there is making its way out into the broader public. It’s just enough information.
It’s not a documentary about the double bass, but I love how Orin covers it and how you portray it and show it. And talking about the cutting room floor—I know that when I interviewed Orin, I came up with two and a half hours of conversations. But that was just one conversation, and I’ve talked to several of her students during these awesome three-hour dinners that she would have with all kinds of people.
Finding the Right Length for the Documentary
You must have collected so much footage. How did you decide on the length of this film? It could have been much longer, but I think it’s perfect as it is. The story flows beautifully and feels exactly as long as it needs to be. How did you make those decisions about what to include and what to leave out?
Monique: We spent a lot of time talking about what theme we wanted to choose that would provide the framework for this story. At the end of the day, the one that really stood out to us and seemed to honor Orin and Orin’s life lessons the most was the story of the unsung hero. Any footage that didn’t fit within that theme, unfortunately, seemed to meander and be about something else.
That ended up being our guiding light for telling the story and keeping it to a length that we felt made a lot of sense. Otherwise, we could have been a series, really. Yeah, so we really stuck to the theme of “The Unsung Hero” and Orin’s final lesson about not being afraid to play second fiddle.
Molly: Yes. Filmmaking is a collaborative art form, and so is orchestral music-making. That idea of honoring the collective by uplifting the unsung heroes, by uplifting the background players—because without them, as she says in the film, the floor falls apart. We need our double bass players. We need our background players.
We need the producers behind the directors and films. Our culture pushes the soloist, the individual, and the star forward all the time. And I don’t know about you, but I’m a little sick of the hero’s journey, and I think it’s time to start hearing the stories of the folks who aren’t considered the stars of the show. I’m more interested in those people.
An Unsung Hero
Jason: Well, that’s such a cool thing about documentary filmmaking—how it lends itself to telling these kinds of stories. I’m a huge documentary nerd, so I’m curious about your process. Did you start by just following with the camera, or did you have the theme in mind from the beginning? At what point during production did the “unsung hero” theme emerge as your direction?
Molly: That’s a really good question. It emerged in the editing room, and we shot a little and then edited a little. Then we shot a little and edited a little. You know, the most cost-effective and most typical television production approach is to shoot everything and then edit it—or even start editing before you’re done shooting—but you do not stop and start.
And we approached the film together—Lisa Remington, Monique, Martina, and myself. We all have other jobs, and we wanted to take the time this film needed. So it was two years in the making once I got the funding for the film. There was a real flow of back and forth between the editing process, and Monique would edit something.
And then we would talk about it. “Oh, let’s go, let’s go, shoot this! We need a kitchen table conversation.” That kitchen table conversation between Orin and I was born from conversations in the editing room. So it was a real kind of checkerboard back and forth and not necessarily a traditional way to make anything, but I think a very productive way to make something.
Jason: Oh, I love that kitchen table conversation. You’re eating Chinese food or something like that and talking, and all these great life lessons are coming up. And Molly, I love your role in it, too. I don’t know what you call that aspect of documentary filmmaking—you’re not the main character but a character.
And just that first line with Orin—it was something like “My niece is the director, I told her not to do it, but she’s disobeying me” or something like that—which sets up Orin’s great sense of humor and serves as a perfect preface to the film so well. So many takeaways.
The Reluctant Participants
Monique: I just want to toss out there that it’s ironic that Orin is a reluctant participant in some of the scenes. We had to convince Molly to step into the role she ultimately played in the film. Her, myself, and our Producer and cinematographer had to say, “Molly, nobody knows Orin better than you do.” And this is organic to your relationship—that you sit down once a week to have dinner or lunchtime conversations and these life lessons.
And these themes are something that—well, is this the first time you heard them? Molly has heard them for years. And to be able to share those lessons that you were lucky to hear all those years with an audience is what we were hoping to get. And so we pushed her in that scene sometimes.
Molly: I was reluctant to put myself on camera because it just felt, again, maybe it’s genetic. I didn’t want to be narcissistic. It’s not about me, but it’s about Orin. But I think you would call me the straight man in this film to Orin’s—she’s the comedian and the lead. I’m the straight man.
Exploring As A Director
Jason: I remember you mentioned in another interview that while you’ve been producing, you hadn’t directed in quite a while—something like 10 or 20 years if I recall correctly. What was it like returning to that role?
Molly: It was so fun. I had so much fun. I loved it. Directing is just much more personal and more vulnerable, especially in a film that’s personal, like this one about a family member. I’ve never directed a true crime series, but even then—I produce a lot of things, and directors are just… they take the work much more personally. They choose the work much more carefully. Producers, and I’m one of them, we can produce multiple projects at once, have them at all different stages.
We care very much about the work, but there’s something different about being a director—it comes more from the heart. You’re responsible for the look, for the feel. It’s like the buck stops with you. So it’s much more intense. I enjoyed it. I had a great time and I’d love to do it again.
